Microsoft uses Flash Player for Vista Launch
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Published
Monday, January 29, 2007
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9:42 AM
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Microsoft launched several Flash applications over the past week in preparation for the launch of Windows Vista. There is some serious irony here folks. Vista provides a "New and Exciting" rich user experience, yet nearly all of the GUI features can be delivered today using Flash Player with Flex or Flash, cross-platform, cross-browser independent of the operating system today to 97% of computers.
ShowUsYourWow.msn.com
Windows Vista
See Windows Vista
Microsoft is again proving that Flash Player is the defacto-standard for delivering great experiences today because it is widely deployable to 97% of computers. Flash provides rich experiences with reach. It will be a very very very long time before Blend/WPF/E has that type of reach and compatibility. I am sure they will get to 50% quickly using Windows Auto-Update but the last 47% is going to be very difficult, if not impossible.
The funny part will be watching Microsoft undo their own Flash sites after Blend ships, if they can do it at all. I think they will have a very difficult time justifying a switch when WPF/E features are not even at the Flash 5 level and deployment compatibility starts at 0% for a version 1.0 MS product. (Personally I think it will be DOA.)
Also if you like the Vista UI, you should check out the skins posted by Juan Sanchez over at scalenine.com for Flex 2. These skins are great as you can make any Flex 2 app look like iTunes, OSX, Windows XP, or Vista.
Vista Skin for Flex 2.0
Skin Swapper with Flex - iTunes, Vista, Obsidian (at runtime)
The fact is that with Flash, "The Wow" started in 1996 some 10 years earlier. It is great that Microsoft is spending Billion to showcase Flash like this and suddenly championing that user experience matters.
ps: MS PR department please comment away! No novels in the comments this time Scott and Co.
Ted :)
Ted,
I think, there is no doubt Flash is the best way to show such things on web. And probably designers hired (either employees or contractors) like Flash and can express things much better using it.
VISTA and Flash are two different things...WPF/E is still too young to be used, but who knows in future ;)
Nothing is impossible, it just needs commitment to push a technology to its limit.. Macromedia did it, Adobe doing it...If Microsoft can learn from it, they might also do it...But do they really want to do, that is the question?
-abdul
This reminds me of an instance last year when a company I know of used Flash to present an Ajax course.
Hi, Ted, you konw, when you are saying this, you already losed... you could be pround of Flex and Flash player, but when these proundness are based on "Microsoft uses Flash Player for Vista Launch", it really sucks.
ps: im not microsoft fan, im just one of the flex2 fans in China (http://www.flex2.org)
i also find it amusing and ironic about ms's use of flash in marketing vista. vista doesn't even come with flash installed, from what i've read. so the new machine with vista installed will have to download and install flash just to see the vista pages properly!
Ironic maybe, surprising... not at all.
There are so many cases like this... using PDF to describe FlashPaper (back when it was MM). MM using AfterEffects to demo Flash. Whatever. I'll even bet that someone at Adobe has used MSWord! Even though Framemaker is a superior (albeit dated) product.
I hope there's no rule at either company that says "ye shall not use any product that comes from outside our walls".
MS Visual Studio must be used by Adobe in some products :)
Good things are adopted even by competitors. Though this case (Flash vs Vista?) is totally different as I said above.
-abdul
Ted,
I could debate you to the point of turning into "yet-another MS vs Adobe" thread that most likely will attract journos and put us back in the press.
I won't this time, because I think your passion for non-Microsoft is overtaking your judgement at times, so rather then debate on specific key points - I'd rather throw a word to you.
Interoperability
Ability to operate together: the ability of the component parts of a system to operate successfully together
I use Flash/Flex inside Microsofts firewall. I also use WPF/E inside Microsofts firewall. Do you think this is good or bad? (Specifically for your role)
Adobe need to tread a fine line with the whole "Microsoft are our competitors" angle, as you need to do a sanity check on your developer base. Last time I probed some of the Microsoft Partners, is that they also use FLASH for a variety of things - right tool, right job, not MS or Die thinking (which I'm concerned that you may subscribe to? Its an opinion that is formulated after reading a lot of your blog threads as of late).
WPF/E is still being cooked, it has a specific purpose in life fore existance and last time I checked, FLEX has been out for quite some time, yet, It appears to have somewhat of a stagnet growth. The tools used to produce FLEX are cumbersome, I say this after 3 years of building FLEX based applications.
Expression Suite is ramping up to challenge the concept that RIA should be easy, whether it wins or fails first round is not the point, what is the point, is that Microsoft has a focus on Developer Satisfaction just as much as End-user Satisfaction. The developers will push Microsoft into line.
Less talk, more listening :)
Scott Barnes
Developer Evangelist
Microsoft.
C'mon Scott enough with the Ted baiting already - it's growing a little tiresome. Your 15 minutes is well up mate. Back in your box.
"It appears to have somewhat of a stagnet growth" - What are you talking about? Stagnant means NOT growing or moving so how can you have stagnant growth?
"The tools used to produce FLEX are cumbersome" - How's that? Last time I checked FlexBuilder was no more complex or cumbersome to use than Expression Studio.
Scott, if you're keen to been seen as nothing more than a bleating trouble maker, who pops up to throw a few tacit, flame inducing, comments around, in an attempt to solicit some time wasting, off topic noise - then continue as you are.
If you honestly want to be seen as an intelligent, conscientious, Developer Evangelist who's keen on openly and clearly debating the topic at hand. How about taking the emotion (read: rambling) out of your comments and replacing it with a some real-world facts.
Scott,
pheeeewwwwww....
I am sure glad you are finally on record as a MSFT Evangelist as saying that Interoperability matters. Can you please email Balmer and Gates on this, it would help.
I also agree that WPF/E is half baked. Maybe version 3.0 will be better, is that in the 2015 release cycle?
No worries Scott, you will return to Flex after your time at MSFT.
Ted :)
Hi Ted,
I'm glad I wasn't alone seeing the irony. I posted a similar comment on Peter Elst's blog rearding MS use of flash video on Soapbox. I didn't know MS has been serving flv's to those w/ Firefox/Mozilla for a long time on MSN etc..
For me the irony of MS using Flash to tout Vista really stems from the fact that they have an whole product line going head to head with Adobe!
If they weren't so obsessed w/ "killing Google" and competing with Adobe, they could have released Vista on schedule perhaps!
I can understand the Google/Sun threat... a hosted OS would cripple them. I'm not a MS hater at all either and I actually prefer it over any other OS.
BTW... is there a non-manual way to ping MXNA from Blogger? I've looked high and low for an answer. Thanks for any help on that :)
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Expression Suite is ramping up to challenge the concept that RIA should be easy
--
I think RIAs should be easy. Why does Microsoft want to challenge the idea that RIAs should be easy?
Should they be hard?
mike chambers
mesh@adobe.com
Matt: Thanks for the crit, I’ve taken onboard your feedback.
Ted: Who do you think told me? Microsoft is all about interoperability, its why you now have SDK's coming out left right and centre. 5 years ago, compare in contrast.
See, if you take a moment to pause, and really pause. You'd realise that with Apollo, developers may very well be able to integrate with Microsoft Office (2007 more importantly) quite snuggly. How? because of our SDK's that are exposed for all to use - even our competitors so to speak.
I think Adobe in this case should celebrate the fact that they are a part of the Windows Vista launch, as their great technology called Flash is being used in a positive manner that connects. Instead of throwing stones at it, celeberate is all I am saying.
I think personally, if you focused more on how Flex can play a role with Windows Vista it would gain more people’s attention than simply casting stones at its very existence (which in fairness, is what you seem to be doing). I'm just here to defend the value and potential of what Microsoft has on offer when it concerns certain products. It's to ensure that a balanced argument or discussion can take place.
I just got my copy of Adobe Creative Suite 2 - Standard this morning. Does that make it better then Expression Designer? No, I use both - does that make me a more agile designer or does it limit me?
Point I’ve been trying to make here guys is, enough with the brand wars. Let's flip it some more, let's show how the two technologies are able to integrate with one another and make real-world sense to the developers whom watch these types of threads.
Mike: Yeah, RIA's should be easier. The tools we use should integrate snuggly, Adobe's got the right approach and you're hinting at it with concepts like having Adobe Photoshop PSD's integrate with Flash IDE, but it should go further. It should make it so that if I apply filters inside Photoshop (blur/shadow etc), it translates that back out into not only FLASH IDE, but Flex Builder. In fact, skinning should be done in Photoshop? why make the designers switch gears? work on that (i'd wager your user base would of preferred that then Apollo or LiveCycle etc.. it just appears that you're losing focus is my point).
Expression does that at present (it's still being worked as well), does that mean its perfect or easier to use. Probably no, but the thing about Microsoft that i've learned recently is, they are persistent, it may take them more time to get it right, but they usually get it done. They keep both Developers/Designers in mind as well as the end-users or business intelligence as to why these products will be used. They keep focus.
I'd simply shift gear guys, and focus on "playing well with others" as do you honestly think that Windows Vista is going to fail miserably with small market share, given the magnitude of its size/investment (5 years of development, 5 years of partner building, 5 years of sideline products being bent into shape to make way for it)... No other company on earth has undertaken something this massive in the timeframe given so yeah, unless you can show an overwhelming amount of metrics that support Adobe developers should avoid Vista, i'd seriously think of ways to help developers connect to it.
It's what I'm doing ;)
Last tid bit...
It sounds ranty but i'll say it anyway.
Do you think that companies like Dell, HP, Toshiba, Intel etc aren't going to support Vista's adoption and furthermore, do you not think there is going to be a market for an operating system that has a focus on being "connected" and integrates with your loungeroom at the same time? (It's nirvana being delivered).
An OS that has a bunch of SDK's that use day to day easy approach languages mixed with Adobe Technology as well as our own there could be some very compelling and interesting software being built.
Its what your developers have been telling me, so *shrug* it's free advice, take it or leave it.
"do you not think there is going to be a market for an operating system that has a focus on being "connected" and integrates with your loungeroom at the same time? (It's nirvana being delivered)."
Of course there is a market for Vista, however there are some doubts about "integration" (from Peter Gutmann ):
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
Nirvana is too big word for that.
Yeah, its just released, so chances are a year from now there is going to be more iterative goodness.
Just like when World of Warcraft was released, you play it, you own it you get to a certain point where its lost its buzz... then along comes Burning Crusade, it stimulates more interest and that buzz gets back into the room.
So XBOX could be a driver, WPF could be a driver etc.. the starting gun just got fired this week ;)
Not sure that Microsoft is focussing on developer satisfaction with the Expresion Suite, more like alienation after pulling the expression products out of MSDN. This strikes me as a big mistake as there has been a big backlash from the developer community on this move.
I would've thought expression would gain some market share through MS developers using it alongside visual studio, and encouraging or requiring in-house designers to adopt it - whereas now that impotus is gone and I cant see the majority of designers switching over to the expression suite unless there are some very significant differentiating features.